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Author: Subject: Phantom Brave weak sauce?
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[*] posted on 22-7-2006 at 02:46 AM Reply With Quote
Phantom Brave weak sauce?



I liked this game well enough. But it seems to me that compared to the other nippon ichi games in existence, this one seems to be the worst. Not saying that the game is bad, but in comparison, it just doesn't seem to hold up as well. What do you guys think? :o



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[*] posted on 22-7-2006 at 03:07 AM Reply With Quote


Well.. Phantom Brave is a mega mixed bag of millions of things ot me. Some people hate it, others loved it.

Me?

I liked it, seeing it was NIS based. I liked the island fairness to it as well for some of the characters such as Ash, Walnut and Bijou the werewolf.

However, some parts I truly disliked was the combat enviroments.

I.E some parts like the jungles which had bouncy floors, The ice had slipperly floors and you would whip out your best battler and he'd end up slidding out of bounds.

The characters I liked. There isn't any NIS character I truly disliked.

Dungeon hopping was so-so, at least you can come back to it, if you had your monk handy with you. If you didn't you're SOL.




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[*] posted on 22-7-2006 at 06:25 AM Reply With Quote


Weaksauce is one word. That's weaksauce you can't spell weaksauce. D:

It was alright, I enjoyed it for the most part. There are a few things that keep me from coming back to it and playing it again, mostly having played with a much smoother battle system in Makai Kingdom. I'm sure if you read around a little bit you might run into a few threads that the discussion came up in recently. Olber (AKA: Akutare) laid it out pretty well though.




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[*] posted on 22-7-2006 at 06:31 AM Reply With Quote


Reminds me.. of what Alex said to me.

They are doing a remake of PB with an added "New game+" in there.And I'm sure,just maybe other stuff..I dont know yet,I cant read japanese that well.

Why they are doing it.I dont know,they should have added the New game in the first place.




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[*] posted on 22-7-2006 at 07:22 AM Reply With Quote


Favorite game out of the series, I like the mood and the story behind it. Depresesing as it may be, it shows there can be a light at the end of a dark tunnel.

I love the characters, I like how the story progressed, I liked battle! So, yeah, that's all I can really say.




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[*] posted on 22-7-2006 at 12:58 PM Reply With Quote


PB is my favorite.. not gonna argue with you though, we all have our views.


anyway, a PB remake? hmm.. like the European release of La pucelle perhaps?




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[*] posted on 22-7-2006 at 03:25 PM Reply With Quote


Like I said, I liked Phantom Brave, but I wasn't a fan of some of their batt;e Enviorments. The characters were great and not cliched. All NiS characters have their own personailties you can adore and love, rather then havin' them fall under the same video game cliche. You know.. "I'm a moody main character... I don't give a damn..." Kinda attitude.

Ash had his moments, so did Marona.

Carnary was funny, but his English voice annoyed me.

Drab's three cronies, The two Fighters and one Blacksmith were funny also.

Then there is Culdrun with his.. "Marona-Kins".

And meeting Laharl is funny.

But at least here people are more mature why they like or dislike it. One person I know strait up said..

"Phantom Brave is retarded and shitty. The graphics are shitty, the characters are shitty and not lovely like Cloud!"

Tch.. How narrow minded can people get?




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[*] posted on 22-7-2006 at 11:17 PM Reply With Quote


I enjoyed the story and characters very much, but the gameplay was poorly balanced to do enemies being level 10 in one battle, and then the next right after it they would be level 30 or so. And it went like this throughout the whole game.

Also the fact you always had to worry that your characters would not get to where you told them, since they usually ran into things making them use up their turns by trying to jump over whatever that was in their way.


But, this too can be said about Makai Kingdom -- just this time it would be about the story and characters. Because while it was very fun to play do to it's battle system (which fixed all the things that took away from PB's), there was nothing there that could really be called a "story". And because of this, the characters falt like they were all missing quite a bit of a real "personality".


So no, I don't think it's the "weaksauce" of all the titles.




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[*] posted on 22-7-2006 at 11:23 PM Reply With Quote


Makai Kingdom was rushed though. It don't make me stop from enjoying it. Part's of MK's story was kinda.. out there and parts where everyone appeared in one clumped gathering was just bleh.

The Sprities weren't as good in MK as PB or Disgaea's were.




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[*] posted on 22-7-2006 at 11:34 PM Reply With Quote


The title wasn't rushed anymore then Disgaea 2 was, so that no reason for it being poorly done when it come to it's story.

Also, the sprities that are used in battle are far better then those of Phantom Brave. They were bigger as well.




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[*] posted on 22-7-2006 at 11:59 PM Reply With Quote


Quote:
Originally posted by Hitoshura
The title wasn't rushed anymore then Disgaea 2 was, so that no reason for it being poorly done when it come to it's story.

Also, the sprities that are used in battle are far better then those of Phantom Brave. They were bigger as well.


It honestly feels rush, you can feel the difference between the two games in how "polished" Phantom Kingdom is compared to Makai Senki Disgaea 2. You can't deny there's too many rough edges in that game.




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[*] posted on 23-7-2006 at 12:30 AM Reply With Quote


I don't deny it was rushed, but the amount of time they worked on it was the same as Disgaea 2. So actually, it wasn't so much it was rushed I think, but that they were lazy when making it since they knew it would sale either way.



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[*] posted on 23-7-2006 at 12:38 AM Reply With Quote


Mmnn... I think they were working on Disgaea 2 already, to tell you the truth. They wanted to bring a game over in the meanwhile so they got some of the developement team together to tide the fans over.

Atleast, that's what I'm pretty sure happened. I'm guessing that's why Tenpei Satou wasn't a part of the musical score (a big part) in Phantom Kingdom for that reason; he was already working on a much bigger project at the time.

Speculation, anyway.




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[*] posted on 23-7-2006 at 01:02 AM Reply With Quote


Wasn't Makai Kingdom being worked on while Phantom Brave was, though? This how it looked, anyway. Since designs of Pram were showing up on the artist site around the time if I'm not mistaken.

But besides that; if they were working on Disgaea 2 already, and made MK just to tide the fans over. Doesn't that show they don't nessarily care for the quality of their titles so long it's sale?




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[*] posted on 23-7-2006 at 01:09 AM Reply With Quote


Bestgame in the NIS series if ya ask me, the feeling and plot are one of the bestest Iv played and the characters, I luved em, specially the Owls!^^



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[*] posted on 23-7-2006 at 01:40 AM Reply With Quote


Quote:
Originally posted by Hitoshura
Wasn't Makai Kingdom being worked on while Phantom Brave was, though? This how it looked, anyway. Since designs of Pram were showing up on the artist site around the time if I'm not mistaken.

But besides that; if they were working on Disgaea 2 already, and made MK just to tide the fans over. Doesn't that show they don't nessarily care for the quality of their titles so long it's sale?


No, you have to look at it from the bigger picture. I think they were trying something different different with Phantom Kingdom. I remember that they DID say it took 3 months to make the game, but they were horribly overworked and trying to meet a deadline.

NIS does want to give something to the fans to tide them over, and they wanted to give a different type of story. It was somewhat a shot in the dark if you ask me, its definetly NOT the best they could do, but at the same time it does have its own charm.

I don't think they're looking to just "make a buck". I believe they are trying to portray stories and still have fun SRPGs for its fans, while giving them a little of what they want. Its hard to believe, but they still are a rather small company, and I believe they handle their fanbase and their games rather well. Giving people things they enjoy while at the same time trying different things with the medium its comfortable with.

I don't think companies overall are selfish, they have reasons behind their madness sometimes and I believe NIS is one of the better developers out there. It was willing to set up a subcompany of theres in the United States for us and it has been rather succesful. Not only with what they bring over and publish but how they handle its customers. That's what keeps me coming back for more, their games are enjoyable and they do deep down seem to realize how their fanbase works.

One final note - ALL companies exist to make some sort of profit, you can't blame them for wanting to exist. I think its a positive thing if a company can make an enjoyable product and still reap in pretty good amounts of cash. You seem to be under the impressioin that their games will automatically sell; that's not necessarily true. If a game fails, for a small company, it could have devastating effects later. So they do have to show a bit of care and prepare for whatever risks they take.

.../ramble. Sorry, I do like these types of conversations!




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[*] posted on 23-7-2006 at 05:22 AM Reply With Quote


That wasn't exactly my intention to give off that kind of an impressioin on the subject. I do believe they try to make quality titles for their fanbase like you, because otherwise those fans wouldn't come back if they weren't doing so.

But this honestly doesn't seem to be the case with Makai Kingdom it feel -- definetly not with a three month deadline. That is very little time to do much in. And I don't see how the developers thought they could do it in that while also making it as polished or well done like the other titles.... or even coming close.

I don't know know about you, but rushing a title along to hold the fanbase over untill their next title was actually ready is not a good business strategy, no matter the reasons. Because it does show somewhat that they are in it to "make a buck" -- not saying they are -- just that it make it seem like this is such.



And nah, ramble away. I like these types of conversations as well. I just usually don't have time for them.




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[*] posted on 25-7-2006 at 12:00 PM Reply With Quote


NIS's worst game in my opinion by quite distance, the ideas behind the combat are sound, just the execution is diabolical, computer AI is horrific i'll just bounce around or jump up and down like a pillock, and then my character will vanish because i spent too many turns trying move properly. If the combat was like Makai Kingdoms the game would be much better, the story was weak, very weak, NIS games need the usual NIS humour. So yeah i hated this, but that's my opinion. Soundtrack was shit too.



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[*] posted on 25-7-2006 at 08:19 PM Reply With Quote


Quote:
Originally posted by Laharl the slayer
NIS's worst game in my opinion by quite distance, the ideas behind the combat are sound, just the execution is diabolical, computer AI is horrific i'll just bounce around or jump up and down like a pillock, and then my character will vanish because i spent too many turns trying move properly. If the combat was like Makai Kingdoms the game would be much better, the story was weak, very weak, NIS games need the usual NIS humour. So yeah i hated this, but that's my opinion. Soundtrack was shit too.


I have to disagree almost everything (EXEPT the combat system...)
The story is one of the bestest if played and same goes for OST, im huge NIS music fan but PB OST is the only gameOST I lissen (exept few songs from Dis2)
Though, I always like things others don't like XD




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[*] posted on 25-7-2006 at 11:17 PM Reply With Quote


Quote:
Originally posted by Laharl the slayer
NIS's worst game in my opinion by quite distance, the ideas behind the combat are sound, just the execution is diabolical, computer AI is horrific i'll just bounce around or jump up and down like a pillock, and then my character will vanish because i spent too many turns trying move properly. If the combat was like Makai Kingdoms the game would be much better, the story was weak, very weak, NIS games need the usual NIS humour. So yeah i hated this, but that's my opinion. Soundtrack was shit too.


I completely disagree with almost everything you've said.

NIS games do not need NIS Humor, Phantom Brave still feels like a NIS game and it felt like they portrayed a very nice story with it. It is a sadder game, but it still does captivate some of the humor in the aftergame.

I felt the limited turns gave for more thinking, but I can see why people think that's a negative. To me its not.




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[*] posted on 26-7-2006 at 03:22 AM Reply With Quote


Quote:
Originally posted by Marionette
Quote:
Originally posted by Laharl the slayer
NIS's worst game in my opinion by quite distance, the ideas behind the combat are sound, just the execution is diabolical, computer AI is horrific i'll just bounce around or jump up and down like a pillock, and then my character will vanish because i spent too many turns trying move properly. If the combat was like Makai Kingdoms the game would be much better, the story was weak, very weak, NIS games need the usual NIS humour. So yeah i hated this, but that's my opinion. Soundtrack was shit too.


I completely disagree with almost everything you've said.

NIS games do not need NIS Humor, Phantom Brave still feels like a NIS game and it felt like they portrayed a very nice story with it. It is a sadder game, but it still does captivate some of the humor in the aftergame.

I felt the limited turns gave for more thinking, but I can see why people think that's a negative. To me its not.


Hey, Im not the only one who likes this game! Yay!^^




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[*] posted on 26-7-2006 at 11:07 AM Reply With Quote


if i wanted to play a game with a good non humourous storyline, i'd play a final fantasy or a suikoden, not this abomination, you spend half your time doing meaningless tasks for instantly forgettable characters. Marona is a very weak lead character (thank you for justice Makai Kingdom!), Ash is equally bad, who else do i remember, the putty is pointless and Castille is just annoying, Sulphur has more than a whiff of Ganon to him (every now again the world is plunged into darkness by something evil ganon/sulphur and some hero appears and kills eventually, difference is Zelda games develop the story properly and have likeable characters). The Soundtrack was worse than Elfen Lied's and that saying something. If its such a great ost why was given away with the game rather than paying the usual 20-50 pricetags for osts? I don't think even PB fanboys can defend the combat system, simply atrocious.

This nis my opinion, if you get offended then boo hoo




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[*] posted on 27-7-2006 at 01:13 AM Reply With Quote


Quote:
Originally posted by Laharl the slayer
if i wanted to play a game with a good non humourous storyline, i'd play a final fantasy or a suikoden, not this abomination, you spend half your time doing meaningless tasks for instantly forgettable characters. Marona is a very weak lead character (thank you for justice Makai Kingdom!), Ash is equally bad, who else do i remember, the putty is pointless and Castille is just annoying, Sulphur has more than a whiff of Ganon to him (every now again the world is plunged into darkness by something evil ganon/sulphur and some hero appears and kills eventually, difference is Zelda games develop the story properly and have likeable characters). The Soundtrack was worse than Elfen Lied's and that saying something. If its such a great ost why was given away with the game rather than paying the usual 20-50 pricetags for osts? I don't think even PB fanboys can defend the combat system, simply atrocious.

This nis my opinion, if you get offended then boo hoo



Opinions and discussion! That's why we're here!

NIS Strat RPGS do not have a tag on it that says they MUST be humourous storylines to be good. NIS does try different things, if the story's not for you - that's cool. I don't think it was a weak story at all, but that's a matter of opinion. There was a good cast of characters for the world they lived in, they were not poorly portrayed or annoying in my opinion.


As for the OST issue, you do realize that NIS does that with ALL of its games, right? The OST of every game comes with the LE version of the game. That's not saying the OSTs are so bad they won't sell on their own (quite the contrary, since the Arranged Albums do sell rather well.) Tenpei Satou makes interesting songs, and Phantom Brave is no exception.


Not all heroes of videogames have to be uber mega powerful character. Making Marona weak gives the player a challenge to try to go around this. I liked the battle system, they were experimenting with it - it does have its flaws but they were sorted out rather well with Makai Kingdom. You can't blame a company for trying new things.

Sulphur and Ganon have nothing in common other than that they keep coming back every so often. Zelda games didn't create that, you know. :o

You brought up points, so I'm counter-arguing them. Nothing wrong with that. No one's offended by your beliefs.




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[*] posted on 27-7-2006 at 06:50 AM Reply With Quote


Any story can be good or bad and only depends on who's playing the game. In PB's case, I agree the story is rather weak (and Marona is just annoying..) but even a weak story can be a good one depending on how the plot and key events in the game are executed. There are many events in the game that I really find very cool, most notable is Sprout's encounter with Sulphur.

The OST in this game is by far my favorite in all of NIS' games. In my opinion I know I like a song when I hear one and PB's songs are good.

The characters aren't all that bad. Though Marona could be a bad leader, Her weaknesses makes the game more challenging, and for me, much more interesting. And Ash is always there for support. Then there's Walnut, though many might hate him, his role in the game was well planned and his portrayal was good. Others like Sprout and Raphael were also well made characters having their own unique storyline.

The battle system was an interesting leap, having introduced the grid free system for the first time, it was likely that it had flaws, most notable are the movement glitches. Despite that, however the battle was very fun for the most part having a wide interactive environment where bread and fish can kill a terror demon XD

The overall game is good and that's just how I view it.




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[*] posted on 27-7-2006 at 06:59 AM Reply With Quote


I dont mind a decent argument topic,but just a reminder,do Not go overboard and starting thrashing each other.If you cant keep it under control,I'm closing it.

I am not saying that someone already is,I'm just saying for future notice.




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